Tag Archives: accuracy

Pilot Diamter is Crucial

Things in the Gunsmithing world are changing.

We spent 8 years with President Obama being the top gun salesman of all time.  He managed keep the fear level high enough that the retail of firearms grew exponetionally during his Presidency.  Then we had Hillary Clinton running for President during the Lame Duck period of Obama’s time in office.

The result was that tens, probably hundreds of thousands of new shooters, dare I say millions? Purchased guns out of fear that at some point in the future they would no longer be able to.  After some time many of them discovered how much fun guns are and all the sporting opportunities they provide.  Not to mention, the portion of the market that only cares about personal protection or concealed carry.  All these new shooters then need gunsmiths to help keep thier guns running and to update them for specialized use or personal tastes.  That means more people hanging out a shingle as a gunsmith.

Personally, I am thankful for the huge growth in the gunsmithing market.  Competition is healthy for business, it pushes people to offer good service and meet the needs of the market place.

As all this has been happening lots of new people are learning to gunsmith.  Some get formal training from one of the traditional schools or from a distance learning company.  It’s exciting to see the market place grow so dramatically.  It does bring some new challenges that we did not see very often in the past.

New Gunsmiths fresh from school and Hobby Gunsmiths with little or no training have to learn some things the hard way, by trial and error if there is nobody handy to teach them.

In this article we are going to talk about one of these items.  In the past I wrote about pilots, discussing solid vs. removable pilots. What we are looking at here is related to that information directly.

Solid pilot reamers are traditionally made with a pilot thats diameter is at the miniumum expected diamter for barrels made in the U.S.   The idea is simple, by going to minimum spec. the pilots will fit most any barrel you may find.  It’s not unusual for a solid pilot to be a few thoushandths of an inch smaller than the bore (the diameter inside the lands of the barrel is the bore diameter). In short making them as universal as possible.  Some guys will claim they cannot be accurate, that simply proves they have a lack of experience, on the contrary they can be very accurate, producing chambers that win matches.  But that is a seperate subject.

removable pilot reamer

Removable pilot bushing retained by a screw.

So why do removable pilot reamers exist?

Because some folks like to remove every alibi they can from the process of chambering a barrel.  Removable pilots allow you to utilize a pilot bushing that closely fits the bore of your barrel.  This eliminates unnecessary run-out between the pilot and the bore of the barrel which might allow the chamber to be out of alignment with the bore.

No matter what size or type of pilot you are using, it must slip inside the bore.  A slip fit on a pilot is normally .0005″ to .001″ smaller than the bore.  If the pilot is too large it will not slip in the bore.  There are several bad outcomes possible from a pilot that fits too tightly in the bore.

  1. Damage to the lands ahead of the throat of the chamber by the friction of a solid pilot rubbing on the lands.
  2. Solid pilot and/or reamer broken, due to the stress of being too tight in the bore.
  3. Removable pilot too tight in the bore can cause the pilot to be forced back onto the reamer.  Since there is no cutting angle where the bushing meets the flutes of the reamer this will impead the advancement of the reamer in the bore.
  4. Removable pilot too tight in the bore often causes the bushing to stick in the bore.  If a gunsmith is paying attention and notices the tight bushing this will never happen.
  5. Air gauged match grade barrels are normally defined as those that have less than .0002″ variation in bore diameter from end to end.  So if you try to stay too close to bore diameter with the pilot bushing you may start out with a slip fit but hit a bind a little way into the bore, especially if the barrel is not match grade.
  6. Removable pilot bushings that fit too tight can introduce enough stress to occasionally cause a reamer to break or chip.

HINT:  If you think a chamber reamer is dull because it is harder than normal to advance into the barrel blank.  Check the pilot fit.  A tight pilot fit will make the reamer hard to turn and advance, giving the impression it is not sharp.  How do I know this?  Because nearly every time someone complains about a dull reamer I have tested them in a barrel blank in my shop and find that they cut just fine.  In these cases I often see damage to the pilot.  Below is a small gallery of photos showing what happens to pilots when abused.

20181030_144747-1Normal bushing and retaining screw.
20181030_144954-1Bushing was too tight,  beat it back out of the bore with a rod.
20181030_141921-1Get a bigger hammer!
20181018_151337-1

If you push hard enough maybe you can cut the pilot too.

20181021_132708

Bushing was forced back onto the reamer. You can see that there was no cutting edge where it met the reamer so it was mashed. Worst of all it expaned making the pilot even bigger in diameter.

20181030_144427-1It does’nt seem to matter what caliber we are talking about, some folks think force is the answer.  Only in Star Wars…
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Filed under accuracy, Gunsmithing, How To, tools

Excerpt from “Gunsmithing Student Handbook Series”

At the time of this writing there are three books in the Gunsmithing Student Handbook Series.  In early 2018 “Chambering Rifles for Accuracy” was released.  In its first week on Amazon.com it was #1 in two categories.  Gordy Gritters, famed benchrest gunsmith & Fred Zeglin well known wildcat and hunting rifle maker joined forces to create this comprehensive title.  It covers the subject of installing and chambering barrels from simple rechamber jobs, to hunting rifles and the last half of the book is all about benchrest quality gunsmithing.

The excerpt here gives you an idea of how careful the authors are to cover details often overlooked in such books.  Enjoy:

Tolerance Stacking; 
                Everything You Need to Know About Pilots?

Chamber reamers come with two styles of pilots, solid or removable bushing (the later sometimes called a floating pilot).  One is evil and one is practically perfection.  But which is which?  I can tell you that in renting tools to gunsmiths I have found the industry is split on this question about 50/50.  In other words, about half demand solid pilot reamers exclusively and the other half will not touch those nasty solid pilots with a ten foot pole.

It is clear that there is a trend toward the removable pilot reamers.  This is because barrel makers are not all holding to the same production standards.  Some have the idea that a tighter bore is better, while other makers hold close to the “standard” bore dimensions.  Example, .308 bores are .300” on the bore and .308” on the groove.  Custom barrel makers have tightened the bore to say .298”  This will required a smaller pilot as the standard pilots are normally .299” with tolerances of + 0 to – .0005”. removable pilot reamer 

Removable pilot reamer.

The reason for the tighter bore?  In short, it is believed that it produces better accuracy.  This is only true as compared to a loose bore that is oversized, i.e. a groove on a 30 caliber of .309 or .310 will produce lower pressures and potentially be less accurate because the bullet is not fully engaged until pressure bumps the bullet up to match the bore.

For a pilot to work correctly it should be .001” smaller than the actual bore dimension.  In other words, it needs to be a close slip fit.  If a pilot is too tight it will bind and likely break the reamer, and possibly damage the bore.  If a pilot is too loose it will promote chatter.  It is possible to run the pilot on a removable pilot reamer closer to the bore diameter (.0005” under bore diameter is ideal), but it must still slip easily in and out to avoid damage to the barrel or the tools.

A little history at this point might be interesting:  Red Elliot was and still is legendary with old timer gunsmiths as the absolute best reamer maker of the last century.  Near as I can tell he was the first to offer removable pilots on his reamers.  Why did he do this?  Well, he found that there were enough different barrel makers in his day that the dimensions of the bore diameter (where the pilot rides) varied a fair amount. 

So, this problem of bore dimensions changing a little is nothing new.  What about SAAMI standards you say?  I will address that in just a moment, for now lets talk about how Red Elliot handled bushing pilots.

I have seen several of Red’s reamers with bushing type pilots, what we sometimes call floating pilots today.  Red held very tight tolerances on his bushings so that it required a little pressure to slide them onto the reamer, held in place by a screw mounted in the end of the reamer the bushing would not turn once the screw was tightened.  This is contrary to the bushing pilots we see commonly used today, where the bushing is a slip fit with about .0005” tolerance internally.  This tolerance is added for manufacturing ease. Tolerance stacking is not usually mentioned in conjunction with floating pilot reamers, but we are going to take a closer look at it here.

Another source of tolerance issues is the fact that the pilot receiver on the reamer must be concentric (round), and in line with the reamer.  If either of these conditions is not correct there will be problems with the reamer cutting oversized or out of alignment with the bore.  Admittedly, this is not much of an issue with today’s cnc machines.  So long as the operator does not make an error, and no chips get caught in the set-up.  One other possible source of trouble would be a warped reamer (not common).

Now for SAAMI, their standards are voluntary, so obviously any barrel maker can decide whether or not to hold solid to the standards.  Industry standard is plus or minus a half thousandth (+ or – 0.0005”) on the bore diameter.  The bore diameter is the smallest diameter of the barrel, also referred to by shooters as “across the lands”.  The same tolerance applies to the groove of the barrel.  I will leave the discussion of groove depth as we are talking about bore diameter as it relates to chambering tools, groove depth does not affect these dimensions.

Admittedly barrels considered “match” grade or “air gaged” are supposed to be held to a tolerance of .0003” or less total variance, end to end of the barrel.  This does not indicate the actual bore diameter, we are left to assume that it is the standard diameter for caliber.  In the case of a 30 calibers we would be talking about a .300” bore.  What if the maker decides to simply use a gage that works with the bore diameter they are making, say .2995” and it air gages as above.  You have a match grade barrel but the bore is at the minimum size according to industry standards. 

Are you starting to see how bores can vary and still be within standards?

Of course there are those makers who operate outside the standards and make perfectly good barrels.  The point being; different size pilots will be needed to chamber these barrels as was recognized back in the 1950’s and 60’s by Red Elliot.  It’s pretty obvious by now that removable pilots are necessary tools in dealing with variations in bore dimensions.  It should be clear by now that variations in bore diameter of plus or minus .001” or even more, is not that unusual, even though such dimensions do not follow the voluntary standards set by SAAMI.

Solid pilot reamers offer certain advantages over the floating pilot.  First and most obvious there is no built in tolerance between the bushing and the reamer, because the there is no bushing.fixed pilot

 

 Solid Pilot Reamer

Since most barrel makers today are making barrels by the button rifled method dimensions tend to remain pretty steady for a given maker as buttons last a long time if properly cared for.  So if you deal with the same barrel maker all the time chances are a solid pilot reamer will fit the same from barrel to barrel. 

There are other factors that play into the bore and groove dimensions, but that is for a discussion for another book.

One limitation of a solid pilot reamer is that it cannot be changed to deal with variations in bore diameters.  Of course you can have the pilot ground down if necessary to fit a tight bore, but then you would probably need a second or even a third reamer to deal with various diameter bores. 

Everything in life is a trade-off.  Because of the expense of multiple reamers for the same caliber removable pilots are a cost effective answer to the problem.  $10 for a bushing beats $100 or more for another reamer.  There are shops that stock bushings in 0.0002” steps for the popular calibers.  This allows them to match the bushing to the bore every time.

pilot bushingsPilot bushings can be a big investment.

To make the use of removable pilots efficient and accurate, the gunsmith should invest in a set of pin gauges.  These are precision ground pins that can be used to gauge the bore and insure that the correct bushing is selected.  Using pin gauges allows the gunsmith to know what bore diameter the barrel maker is really supplying.

Now keep in mind the pilot has to slip into the bore, so in mechanical terms the pilot has to be about 0.0004” smaller than the bore to slip in without any interference. In most shops the pilot is figured at 0.001” smaller than the bore and rightly so.  Too tight a fit can gall and or leave marks in the bore or stress the reamer and break it during the reaming process.

What happens if the pilot is too loose?

Ninety-Nine times out of a hundred when a reamer chatters (vibrates) in use, it is because the pilot to bore fit is too loose. 

The lack of support when the pilot is too small allows the reamer to move around in the bore, as the tool tries to bite into the steel it grabs hard and because even tool steel is flexible you get chatter as the tool loads and releases tension.  This is the reason that some gunsmith’s insist on having a set of pilots that cover the possible variations in .0002” (That’s 2/10,000 of an inch.) increments.  Keeping the pilot as close to bore dimensions as possible will help eliminate chatter and promote a more precise chamber. 

If you have a pilot that is a perfect match for the bore but is too loose on the inside where it rides on the reamer then the advantage of a close fitting pilot is negated.  To pull the whole concept together…  If you have a .0002” tolerance on your bushing to barrel fit and the same on the pilot to reamer fit, you end up with .0004” total slop on the pilot. 

I can tell you that most people do not grasp this or understand why these tolerances  matter.  I base that statement on 30 years of talking to gunsmithing customers, and the people who call to rent tools.  The comments that shooters and gunsmiths make during our conversations indicate their level of understanding in a hurry.

In general if the total pilot run-out is under .001” then all will work fine and there should be no worries.  This rule holds true for solid pilot or removable pilot reamers.  Long ago I lost track of how many rechamber and barrel jobs I have done.  I can tell you that

Chambering Rilfes for Accuracy, cover

 it is possible to get an accurate job from either type of reamer.  In fact, if pressed for a choice I would say that solid pilot reamers are more accurate on average.  Especially for inexperienced gunsmiths.

I do not make this statement lightly, as I own hundreds of reamers of both types.  This goes back to the understanding of how the tools relate to the barrel.  To reiterate, the one caveat would be that for best accuracy the pilot of the reamer must meet the tolerances of less than .001” run out verses the bore, for all this to hold true.

There is another major factor in how well a reamer cuts and how accurate the gun will be…  The gunsmith must do a good job on the set up for machining.  If the threads are not true to the bore, or the chamber is crooked or oversized, or the throat of the chamber ends up off center, accuracy will be elusive to say the least.

Use of a floating reamer holder is a great way to insure an accurate chamber.  This tool allows the reamer to follow the hole in the barrel without any side pressure that might be caused by minor misalignment of the tail stock to the bore of the lathe.

Whether you plan to build accurate hunting rifles or top quality competitive benchrest and long range guns this handbook has detail descriptions and plenty of clear photos to make the subject easy to understand.  The other titles in the series deal with headspace, the vital counterpart to chambering, check them out here.  More titles are planned for the series.  These are college level training manuals that a gunsmith at any level of experience will value.

Another post of interest on this subject.

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Filed under accuracy, Books, Gunsmithing, How To, Rifles, Shooting, tools

The Big News for Fred Zeglin, April 2018

How many authors can brag that they held #1 in two categories on Amazon.com?

I don’t know the answer to that, but I am one of them so here I am, bragging.

Last month (April 2018) Gordy Gritters and I (Fred Zeglin) released our new book, “Chambering Rifles for Accuracy”.  This book is the 3rd in the Gunsmithing Student Handbook Series. Obviously the reception of the book and it’s counterparts in the series has been very good.  It’s gratifying to see our work appreciated by so many customers.

On behalf of Gordy and myself.

Thank you for pushing us to #1 on Amazon during the first week of April.

#1 on Amazon

#1 in Two Categories on Amazon!

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Sierra Adds a 150 grain HPBT

150_264matchking

It’s a MatchKing® bullet actually introduced in October 2017 but is certainly being featured at the 2018 SHOT Show.  The popularity of 6.5 cartridges like the Creedmoor, 6.5×47 Lapua and 6.5×284 in all its numerous iterations will insure the sales of a new match bullet for Sierra.  At the time of this writing it appears Sierra is the only major bullet producer that offers a 150 grain bullet for the 6.5 bore.  This bullet will be best suited for cartridges with more case capacity, the 6.5-06 or the 6.5-284 will probably utilize it best.

MatchKing 6.5mm 150 grain HPBT (#1755).  Has a sleek 27 caliber elongated ogive and a final meplat reducing operation (pointing) to provide an increased ballistic coefficient (claiming over .700) for optimal wind resistance and velocity retention.  To ensure precise bullet to bore alignment, a unique bearing surface to ogive junction uses the same 1.5 degree angle commonly found in many match rifle chamber throats.  There is an interesting subject for a test; does matching the shape of the throat and bullet change the accuracy of any given bullet?

MatchKing® and Tipped MatchKing® bullets are not recommended for most hunting applications. Especially when we are talking about game animals of any size.  Match bullets are designed for accuracy and bucking wind over long range, but they are not designed to reliably expand.  Sierra makes GameKing® bullets for Hunters.

According to Sierra this bullet requires a barrel twist rate of 1 turn in 7.5” or faster.

 

 

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Filed under accuracy, ammo, bullets', Camp Perry, reloading, wildcat

Getting Ready for “This Season”

It’s that magical time of year when hunters start saying, “This Season” instead of “Next Season”.

Upgrade, try a new caliber.

Upgrade, try a new caliber.

Across the west every year when the big game draw results become public hunters start to plan for their fall trips.  Once you know the results of the draw it’s time to assemble the gear and goodies you will need for a successful hunting season.

The problem is eternal though, that for most sportsmen we are still fishing, boating, hiking, camping and doing all those summer time activities with family and friends.  It’s difficult to turn your attention to fall plans when you’re so busy having fun in the outdoors.

Doing just one small thing can greatly aid in your fall preparations and takes only a few minutes out of your summer.  Last season either you gun broke or you decided it needed an upgrade before next season.  Well, next season is now this season.  Grab that gun from the safe and get it to the gunsmith now.  You can avoid the seasonal rush and be much more likely to get your job done before the fall hunt is upon you.

Fall is just around the corner

Soon you will be glassing for that buck.

It takes time to get in parts or barrels to upgrade your firearm.  Leave time for the gunsmith to acquire the parts you want.  Many gunsmiths I talk to even offer specials this time of year to encourage bringing projects in early.

So drop your gun off now, so you can get back out there and enjoy the summer.  Then when fall hits you will have that new barrel, scope, stock, trigger or whatever you need to be more successful on you hunt this fall.

Now go have some fun!

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NRA Short Term Gunsmithing Program, Kalispell, MT

FVCC LogoFlathead Valley Community College is hosting the NRA Short Term Gunsmithing Program again this summer.  2014 will be the third year for this program at FVCC, the program has grown in attendance each year and this year should be no different.  New classes are being offered so if you attended or looked at the offerings in the past there is probably something new for you this year.

Quality instruction is the name of the game at FVCC.  The instructors for the Short Term Program are all top notch professionals who are well respected in the gunsmithing community.  For instance, Lee Helgeland is one of the premier stockmakers in the nation.   He has spent 30 years perfecting his craft and is a member of the American Custom Gunmakers Guild.  Another instructor new to the Kalispell program this year, Sam Hatfield, certified NRA and Sig Academy Master Instructor.  Sam was head gunsmith at Green Mountain Guns in Lakewood, Colorado and served as a member of the United States Army Marksmanship Unit as a gunsmith. Sam now owns Hatfields Gunsmithing Inc. in Manassas, VA.

To learn more about the instructors for this summers program check out this link:

http://www.fvcc.edu/continuing-education/gunsmithing-program/instructors.html

New classes this year include “S&W Revolver Action Work”, “1911 Handgun AMU Accuracy Rebuilding” and “Accurate Reloading for the Hunter”.  Perennial favorites like “Customizing AR-15 or AR-10” and “Introduction to Checkering” will still be on the schedule.

If you have ever wanted to learn more about gunsmithing but can’t take of the two years necessary for most schools, the NRA Short Term Gunsmithing Program is a great alternative.  Classes normally run or one week, Monday through Friday.  They are intensive hands on classes with small numbers of students, so you have great access to the instructor. This unique learning opportunity is set up as part of the Continuing Education Department of the College and the courses are non-credit.

If cost is a concern I noticed that the College has some Scholarships provided by NRA donations, details at this link:

http://www.fvcc.edu/continuing-education/gunsmithing-program.html

An electronic copy of the brochure for these classes is available at this link:

http://www.fvcc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Gunsmithing-Course-Brochure.pdf?2ebeaa

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Filed under accuracy, Firearms, Gunsmithing, How To, Pistol, Rifles, tools

Miller Precision Arms 300MPA, SHOT Show 2014

We reported on this gun when Miller Precision first introduced it on July 4th,2012.  More recently they displayed the MPA300 at the SHOT Show, 2014.  At Media Day they had several rifles there ready for writers to test.

Miller Precision MPA300

Not too surprising, the writers all wanted to shoot the 300 Winchester in favor of the other models in 308 Winchester and 5.56 Nato.

The MPA300 has the distinction of being the only 300 Winchester Semi-auto on the market that is truly on the AR platform.  While the upper, lower, magazine and bolt carrier are specific to the MPA, the rest of the parts are all AR-10 interchangeable.   So you can dress your gun with any of the various features that are already on the market for the AR-10.

Media day turned out to be a real endurance test for the MPA300.  When Brandon Miller saw that everyone wanted to shoot the 300 Winchester almost exclusively, he decided to see how long the gun would run without a cleaning.  It went about 2700 rounds before the first malfunction.  A quick inspection and cleaning had the gun back at the line and by the time the smoke cleared the gun had fired over 4000 rounds without a second failure. 

Actions are machined from billet aluminum.  These guys are selling quality, not big-box store discount products.  Finishes for the Miller Precision guns are about as varied as you can ask for.  Among other things they offer hydrographic coatings, so the choices are almost limitless.  These guns are impressive.

Brandon Miller w MPA300

Brandon Miller with his MPA300, Media Day 2014

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Multiple Impact Bullet, SHOT Show 2014

Here is a sad fact about emergency situations:  Without extensive daily training chance are your initial reaction will be less than perfect.  In the case of life threatening situations, because of fear, panic, or adrenalin, 93 percent of first shots fired miss the intended target.  This is easy to understand.

In the best of circumstances we all have a slight twitch when firing a gun.  The best marksman learn to minimize the flinch or twitch.  For instance, if your twitch puts you just 2 degrees off target at 20 feet you will be 9.1 inches off your intended point of aim.  Obviously that is enough to cause a miss.

These facts caused the folks at Multiple Impact Bullets to invent a bullet that makes if for more likely a first shot will hit the target.  A bullet enhanced with Multiple Impact™ Technology (a prior-to-impact expansion technology) is designed to compensate for most if not all of the typical marksman’s error caused by Last Second Twitch.

The new design divides a single projectile into 3 interconnected segments that will spread to a predetermined orientation and finite diameter when fired. Once deployed, the segments of the proprietary Wide Envelopment Bullet™ (W.E.B™) are tethered together (like a spider web), to offer the shooter a much wider impact zone, reducing the occurrence of missed shots and thereby reducing the risk of collateral damage. (A standard .45 cal slug is .452 inches in diameter and remains that way until it collides with something, where as a T3™ round of the same caliber can be made to expand (instantly upon leaving the barrel) to a predetermined diameter (range 6 “ to 16 “ or greater).

This one of a kind Accelerated Radial Spread™ makes possible a wide spread pattern that ensures a high hit probability for each and every shot, resulting in unprecedented accuracy/hit probability, ensuring the shooter a greater tactical advantage.

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25-45 SRC (Sharps Rifle Co.) SHOT Show 2014

Found this little goodie at Media Day for Shot Show.  You might imagine seeing the Sharps name that has always been associated with single shots and then seeing nothing but AR-15 rifles in the booth.  I took a double take…  which is probably what they were hoping for all the writers that visited the event.25-45 SRC ammo

Having been in the gun business for so many years I have seen the rebirth of many company names.  Some have been successful and others have quickly died away.  No telling what will happen with this new company.  Sharps Rifle Company (SRC) is one of several brands, (five at present) under the one roof.

Turns out the item of interest was the 25-45 SRC cartridge.  This is the most recent iteration of a wildcat most commonly known as a 25/223 Remington.  Another well known variation came out in 1987 as the 25 TCU (Thompson Center Ugalde).  The TCU version was designed for metalic silhouette competition.  Of course that cartridge was intended for use in a 14″ barrel from a Contender pistol.  While they are not interchangeable the two cartridges are very similar.  Ahh, what’s old is new again.  I sense a theme here.

  • 65 Grain Rapid Expansion Varmint is advertised at 3300 feet per second from a 20″ barrel.
  • 87 Grain soft point or FMJ loads are advertised at 3000 feet per second also from a 20″ barrel.

Of course, headstamped brass and commercially loaded ammo is always a selling point and SRC is offering just that.  For more information on the brands and products associated with SRC click here.

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Filed under ammo, Rifles, Shooting, wildcat

Forbes Production Rifle, SHOT Show 2014

For years Melvin Forbes has been offering custom light weight rifles through his company, “New Ultra Light Arms”.  For 2014 Forbes is bringing to market a production rifle under a different company www.forbesriflellc.com.

These rifles will be light weight hunting guns, just like the custom guns Forbes has offered in the past.  The production rifles will be offered in the short action M20B, and the long action M24B.  Short actions will be chambered in 308 Winchester, 243 Winchester, and 7mm-08.  The long action rifles will be chambered in 270 Winchester, 280 Remington, 6.5×55 Sweed, 30-06, and 35 Whelen.

Production rifles will sport Timney Triggers, with sear block safety, and 3 round magazines, CNC machined actions, spiral fluted bolts, and hand laid carbon fiber/Kevlar stocks with 13.375″ Length of pull.  Stocks will be available in multiple colors.

Forbes is not abandoning New Ultra Light Arms.  They will continue to build the fine custom rifles they have become famous for.

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Filed under Firearms, hunting, Rifles, Shooting, Stocks